How to Finally Trust Your Body Around Food: Intuitive Eating for Women with Cassandra Bodzak

What if the most revolutionary thing you could do for your health was simply to listen to your own body?

In this episode Christina Fletcher talks with mindful eating expert, holistic wellness guide, and author Cassandra Bodzak about why our relationship with food and our body are the two longest relationships of our lives  and how to finally get into alignment with both.

Cassandra shares practical tools to cut through the noise of diet culture, reconnect with your body's intuitive wisdom, and make food choices from a place of self-love rather than restriction or outside pressure. If you're navigating perimenopause, emotional eating, or simply exhausted by conflicting nutrition advice, this conversation will feel like a deep breath.

In this episode:

• Why sugar and flour sit in a category of their own — and what your body actually wants instead
• How to start a simple daily body check-in to rebuild trust with your body's signals
• The food detective journal ; a practical intuitive eating tool to track how food really affects your mood, energy, and focus
• Why diet trends like keto, Atkins, and the protein craze work for some people some of the time  and how to experiment wisely on your own terms
• Muscle testing and learning your body's yes and no signals around food and beyond
• How small intuitive eating choices build the self-trust you need for bigger life decisions

This episode is for you if… you're tired of conflicting nutrition advice, you suspect your body knows more than any diet plan, or you're navigating perimenopause and wondering why everything that used to work simply doesn't anymore. 

Free resource from Cassandra: A guided body wisdom meditation from The Mindful Table bonus page https://divinely-design-your-life-d3df.mykajabi.com/meditation-bundle

Or Visit Cassandra's site at https://cassandrabodzak.com/

About Cassandra Bodzak

Cassandra Bodzak is a mindfulness author, actress, and holistic wellness guide known for helping soul-led women design lives that support their energy, purpose, and expansion. Her upcoming cookbook, The Mindful Table, invites readers to heal their relationship with food and their body by learning to listen to their intuitive wisdom and take back their power around their wellbeing. Having studied Lifestyle Medicine and Nutrition Coaching through Harvard Medical School and certified as a Holistic Health Coach through the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, Cassandra bridges science and spirit to help women create a foundation for expansion through intentional nourishment, activity, and self-care.

Find Cassandra at cassandrabodzak.com and on Instagram @cassandrabodzak. The Mindful Table is available wherever books are sold.

Free Resource Mentioned: Your Missing Map  Christina's free guide to your energy system. Learn what each chakra means, how to know when it's blocked, and one simple tool to realign. Available as a PDF and audio. spirituallyawareliving.com/themap 

Christina Fletcher is a Spiritual Alignment coach, energy worker, author, speaker and host of the podcast Showing Up Whole.
She specialises in practical spirituality and integrating inner work with outer living, so you can get self development off of the hobby shelf and integrated as a powerful fuel to your life.

Through mindset, spiritual connection, intuitive guidance, manifestation, and mindfulness techniques Christina helps her clients overcome overwhelm and shame to find a place of flow, ease, and deep heart-centered connection.
Christina has been a spiritual alignment coach, healer and spiritually aware parent coach for 11 years and trained in Therapeutic Touch 12 years ago.  She is also a meditation teacher and speaker.
For more information please visit her website www.spirituallyawareliving.com

Want to uncover where you need the most energy alignment?
Take her new Energy Alignment Quiz to identify which of your energetic worlds (mind, body, heart or spirit) needs aligning the most!

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Cassandra Bodzak

Christina 0:00

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Showing Up Hole, the place where we discuss alignment in mind, body, heart, and spirit in every aspect of our lives. And as I'm reading the bio of our guest today, I must admit, I'm like, oh, we're talking about one of my favorite topics. We're talking about food. We get to talk about food. We are talking to I should have tried to forget how to pronounce her last name. We were talking to Cassandra Bodak, who is a mindfulness author, an actress, and holistic wellness guide, known for helping soul-led women design lives that support their energy, purpose, and expansion. Her upcoming cookbook is The Mindful Table, everyone. And she invites readers to heal their relationship with food in their body by learning to listen to their intuitive wisdom and take back their power around their well-being. Cassandra has studied lifestyle medicine and nutrition coaching through Harvard Medical School and got her certification as a holistic health coach through the Institute of Integrative Nutrition. She bridges science and spirit to help women create a foundation of expansion through intentional nourishment, activity, and self-care. And as I read this bio, I was going, oh, I understand why she's on this show. That's so exciting. It is great to have you on here, Cassandra. Thank you so much for coming on. This is such an exciting topic.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Thanks so much for having me. And yes, by your little the log line of your podcast, I'm like, yep, that's exactly everything that I do. Excellent.

Christina 1:29

Um like and I mean it's such an interesting thing. Like I really do say, like, you know, yeah, the topic of food. My family and I, we always are like, you know, any holiday, it's like, well, uh food. Just like food. Food is a time of nourishment, is a time of connection. It is a time of grounding. It is a time of, you know, uh one of the joys of being human is food, right? Um, and yet at the same time, it is the fuel of so many things and it affects so many things. So mindful table. Let's and actually your work in mindful nutrition. Let's dive in there. What

Food And Body As Lifelong Bonds

Christina 2:04

is this? What is your approach on this?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Well, I think, you know, first of all, like you were saying, when it comes to food, and I think food kind of goes hand in hand with our body too. Um, there are these two things that we have this relationship. I describe them as like they're like the the your marriages, right? Like, it's like longer than if you get married, any marriage. It's the longest long-term relationships you're gonna have in your, you know, human life, is first of all, your body, right? Like your body is, you know, is the first thing it you know starts forming or whatnot in your mother's womb, and you have some level of relationship with your body your entire life, right? You're in it, you how can you escape it? And food is the same way, right? And that's why with food, when we develop different, you know, unhealthy relationships with it, let's say, and there's like such a spectrum of unhealthy relationship, of course, right? And I feel like there's so much, like you were saying, we like attach to food, whether it's like celebration or comfort or whatnot, that these food and your body are these relationships that you can't really get out of, right? Like you can't get out of. So we have to find a way to get into alignment with them. I love that, and you know, and I think that our alignment in those two primary relationships is foundational to how we're able to do anything else in our life, right? To not only our health, but also, you know, pursuing other relationships or our joy. Um, and so with the mindful table and with my work, one of the things that we talk about is how do we how do we handle that potentially negative, judgy voice that sometimes we have in our head that is not always very helpful? How do we find and listen to the helpful voice, um, the voice of our intuition or our body wisdom or God, whatever you want to call it, but that deep inner voice that's guiding us in the right direction. Um, and then on a logistical level, how do we empower ourselves to become our own advocates when it comes to what is really individually in alignment for us when it comes to eating and resting and self-care and taking care of our bodies? Because I think that's another battle that so many of us fight is we're inundated with all of this kind of marketing is mostly what it is, honestly. Um, around, oh, this is what you have to eat, or this is the right way to eat, or those people are eating wrong or whatnot, right? Um, and it's mostly about people, you know, from people that have no idea about our individual body or have ever, you know, obviously no one's ever been in our body, but like mostly likely from someone that's not even looking at your blood test. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Christina 5:11

Not even talked about your symptoms or any of it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, and that's so true. Okay, actually,

Sugar And Flour Versus Body Wisdom

Christina 5:18

you know what? Let's poke around that first, because this is actually, um, I know personally, um, like uh many of the women that I talk to are going through paramenopause, and I'm going through perimenopause as well. Uh, and my approach to that, one of the things that my body has really nudged me to do is cut out sugar. When you're talking to someone who, as like a chocolate fiend, my entire family was like, good luck on that. But, you know, I pretty much have eliminated it and I feel so much better. And it was a fascinating thing to kind of actually go, oh, actually, I don't really want that. I think of having a chocolate bar now, and I'm like, oh no, that feels so uncomfortable. So that's been a fascinating journey for me and the actual ability to listen to my body through that. Now, uh, I also will talk to a lot of women in paramenopause, and I'm like, this doesn't necessarily mean that it's for you. It it's fine. Like I have a certain lifestyle that that can kind of match. There are certain things that I can do that other people can't. I can do a lot more herbal teas and things because I do that kind of stuff, you know. So how do you actually help people start to because sugar is such an interesting one because there's an addictive nature to it. So uh it's actually separating the addiction from the intuition, and there's a lot of things that is like that. There's a lot of different uh foods that we have that have that addictive nature that we think our bodies want it, because of course our bodies think it does, yeah, but our bodies don't. So for mindfulness within eating, how do you help your clients start to really listen to their bodies of actually what their bodies are asking? Is that a really broad question?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

No, no, no. Okay, so but uh there's like a couple things I want to touch on. So let's like pin that for a second. I want to make sure we come back to that because I I want to talk to what you shared about the sugar quickly first, right? Go for it. So, first of all, I love I love what you shared because that is at the crux of like what I'm gonna talk to you about a little bit more around becoming a food detective, is because I actually think when you have those moments where you're able to listen to your body and you get that hit yourself, right? Where you're not like, oh, I you know, read seven Pinterest posts on perimenopause that said I have to give up sugar, right? But you're like, no, you know, I keep on getting this sign from my body that maybe I need to give up sugar, right? It comes from a different place, and you have that experience now with the chocolate bar because you're actually being a steward of what your body was gonna make your body feel best, right? So even though, like in theory, you're like, oh, okay, maybe I remember chocolate as being tasty, um, it's not worth it to me. I've decided for me, it's not worth it to me, the the exchange here, right? And so I would venture to say, you know, it's funny, um, there's a lot of things that I think, you know, for instance, like you could love tomatoes, tomatoes can make you feel really good, and tomatoes might not work for my body.

unknown 8:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Um, there are things like that, and then there's things like sugar and flour. Right? And sugar and flour that are highly processed, yeah, that are man-made, right? That um, you know, and and anything like that that's like highly processed, right? But sugar and flour are number one, like kind of like addict addictive drug foods, right? Yeah. Um, none of us need it. Yeah, none of us need it. There's not, I mean, if your body needs sugar, and your body does need sugar, but you know what it needs? It needs berries. Yeah, it needs, it wants fruit, right? It wants, and that sugar is combined with fiber and antioxidants and all this other stuff that make it so that it is giving your cells the, you know, your brain needs sugar to function. You need all like you do need levels of sugar, but there is sugar in carrots, there is sugar in beets, right? Yeah, and so, you know, if your brain needs that kind of sugar, right? Or that kind of like fast carbohydrate to function, you're gonna be like, oh man, I need an apple. You know, let me grab that banana all of a sudden looks really good, right? Um, and so I think it's like things like that. I would say when you're talking about the addictive nature of things, and same thing, you know, when it comes to grains, right? Okay, well, you could eat like a whole grain, you know, if you're craving like grains, right? Instead of having something that has like the processed flour in it. Right, right. Yeah, and so I think with those things, I would I like feel like they're in their own little like yeah, okay, fair enough. Fair enough.

Christina 10:34

Where there is nobody that needs there's nobody who needs candy, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

You don't need it. Okay, if you want, you know, cacao, like if you want some raw cacao, you can make some raw cacao, like cacao has magnesium. I love my cacao. You know, I do I love some cacao too, right? You get magnesium, you put coconut milk or whatever you like in it, right? Yeah, um, and there may be properties. I do believe our our bodies are brilliant, right? Where there may be like maybe you're struggling to sleep at night, right? And you're like, oh, I like I need magnesium. So you're being drawn in a certain way to like how what you know what might be an easy way for you to get that. However, so yeah, so I think that is, you know, sugar and flour in one of those way in in that way is causing inflammation in our body when it's in a highly processed thing. Um, so I think almost everyone would feel better. Um, I don't think there's anybody that wouldn't feel better not having highly processed cane sugar and highly processed

Quit Panic And Mindful Treats

SPEAKER_00 11:42

flowers. However, however, I do think, you know, then when we go back to like our relationship with our body and stuff, there are some people that have a more restrictive dance that they might be doing that it might not be in their highest good to go full cold turkey, right? Um, for their mental health and like self-love relationship. So I think we're all on like different spectrums, and obviously you've done a ton of work. Um, and you're very tuned in yourself. And so for you making that leap and like tuning in, like bravo, I do think it can only help you. Um I do feel so much better. I'm anybody who wants to try it, I do feel so much better. Right. And you know, and for someone else might just not be at that place yet, right? They may be at that place where that still reminds them of a time in their life where they were really mean to their body, and the way that they were mean to their body was restricting themselves, right? Right. And so for them, it might be something, you know, when I work with clients that have that kind of background, it might be something of saying, okay, I'm gonna pick one night this week where I get to have a treat, right? Or two nights, whatever, depending on where they're starting from, you know. And so it's not so much about I can never have it, right? Because for some people, like never anything can like be really, really triggering.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Um, but it's about saying, okay, I don't need to have that every single day. That doesn't need to become my like crutch when I'm stressed out to like grab that cookie, right? It can be more of a mindful, intentional treat.

Christina 13:32

Yeah, because I think you raise such a powerful point there because so often those things do come from a the idea of quitting triggers a person's nervous system. They get really into a space of feeling panicky and like that's taking away their security. So therefore they reach for those foods as their security, and that in some ways is actually the first thing to break.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Is exactly which is it it may almost can make those things like more attractive. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Um so that's kind of like how like you've already the what you described is kind of like how going through the process, right?

Daily Body Check-In For Intuition

SPEAKER_00 14:05

So one of the things that the first thing I have people do is start having a conversation with their body. So beginning a daily practice of just even just a couple minutes thanking their body for all the beautiful things it's doing. Like, hey, you woke up this morning, means your heart was beating all night long, right? Your lungs were, you know, breathing for you all night long. Like, even if that's where you have to start, even if you know, just like those basic, like, wow, like the fact that you're listening to this podcast means that like you can hear your brain is processing this information. Your fingers clicked on it. Your fingers were able to click on it. Maybe you're on a walk right now and you're able to walk. Maybe you're doing your laundry and you're able to fold your laundry, right? Like, there's so many, like what I call it authentic gratitude. It's like take a moment, and it could literally just be like that, like the 30 seconds we just spent, like, boom, boom, boom. But actually, like tuning into that every day to start off with that base level of gratitude for your body. And then from that space, I love recommending like a little meditation of just tuning into your body. And I have um, I'll put the link for your listeners with um on the book page. I have a guided meditation for anyone that's like, Oh, amazing, like this is overwhelming to try to do myself. Amazing. But I just like tuning in, you put like a hand on your heart, hand on your belly, touching your body, breathing into your body, and just saying, Hey, how are we doing today? How do you feel? Wonderful. What do you need, right? Is there anything, you know, is there anything that I'm doing right now that's not working for you? Like your sugar, right? Is there anything that maybe I'm not doing that you would love more of, right? And maybe, you know, and just at first, like I can tell that, you know, you're seasoned and attuned and and likewise here, but I like to tell people that if you've never done this, right? And you don't have a meditation practice, if you're not, haven't been in this conversation, just give it time. Just show up every day. Don't expect, you know, a lot of times people are surprised and they'll hear something right away, or they'll get like a me, some people get just like an image of something, sometimes they'll get like just like a thought of like, oh, I think I think I want a banana today, right? It could be something as simple as that. And the thing I love about the body wisdom or the intuition that comes up is that it is never overcomplicated. It is never like you need 116 grams of protein and 40 grams of fat. No, it's like it might be like, okay, like we, you know, um, we need more protein or whatever, right? It might have something basic, right? And you'll probably get an a specific food that's in like your category of foods that you eat um that it's pulling you towards, or it might be something super simple, like more sleep, more movement. Um, and so I start off with that, just getting them into that daily short practice of connecting with their body. And I think it's great if you have any sort of like spiritual or religious practice in the morning that you do, it's great to like stack it on that as part of that process. Um, and then eventually I say, you know, you get into that flow where it sounds like you're probably at as well, where you'll just hear it when things come up, and it doesn't have to be so formal. And you might have those moments where, like, you were saying in perimenopause or I literally just got my period two days ago, and I was like, Oh, you know, I'm so tired. What do you need? Right? Um, we have those, we have those moments where we're, you know, okay, I'm gonna go tune in. What's gonna be supportive? Is it better for you right now if I go on the walk, or is it better if I just take a little nap while I have a break, you know? Um, and we get into that conversation because I think that's the foundation of then being able to make these more, you know, bigger decisions, I would say. When we have built up, um, you know, I think so many people really like yearn to be able to trust more of their intuition and to build that self-trust around, you know, what comes up for them. And I always say that the the most practical way that's built is through these like small moments, right? Yeah, it's when you might just get that. I mean, I think a lot of people can probably relate to this. If you're a coffee drinker and you're someone that like has a regular coffee, I'm sure at some point you probably got some sort of like virus or some sort of like sickness or whatever, and that morning you're like, I don't want to do the coffee, I want to have some like herbal tea, right? Maybe you had a sore throat or whatnot, and that is like just like such a primal way that you've already heard and probably listened to, right? It's so funny. I think people can have like the you know, all the whole spectrum of different habits, but oftentimes, like if you get like under the weather with something, it's like you know, you're super you're like, Oh, I just want broths. You might be someone that never has broths ever in your other life, right? But you're like, I need broths. It's because in those moments we are willing, we're so willing to listen, right? We're so willing to listen because we're kind of in a compromise state, right? Yeah, and so a lot of times we can kind of like you know, soot through all of our other habits, and we're like, yeah, I know every other morning, you always have your coffee and your pastry or whatever, but today, you know, you really want to have that, and oh, maybe I want just some fresh orange slices or something, right? Um, and so that's a good example. And I would say when you start tuning in on the daily in just those little ways that are real low ticket, so to speak, right? Like just tuning in, let's say we mo most of us are pretty aware of what we have in our pantry and like what's accessible to us for like breakfast or you know whatnot, and just taking that moment and tuning into your body and saying, okay, what would feel really good for breakfast today for you? And may and your mind, you're you know what you have, right? Like maybe you got some apples and bananas in the fruit bowl, maybe you know you have like oatmeal in the cupboard, maybe you uh you have stuff to make pancakes, I don't know what you got, right? Maybe you got yogurt, so you know all these things, and when you're tuning in, depending on what your body needs, you might get a different thing. So I'm like, just tune in. Maybe give yourself two or three options of like what you know could be easy to make within your time constraints and like you know, accessible. And even if you're not, like if you're rushing off to work and you're like, I always stop at this coffee shop and I always get my coffee and a croissant or whatever you do. Maybe just take a moment today before you place your usual order, look at all the the whole menu and all the options available to you, and tune into your body and say what would feel good today. And and then take the risk, right? Because it's a little risk, right? So maybe we're like, okay, worst case scenario, you tune in and your body says, you know what, instead of getting your usual coffee and croissant, why don't you get a green tea today and I don't know, an egg bite or whatever. Like, and and so it's like, okay, maybe you're like, oh, really? Do I want that? Am I gonna like it? Am I gonna be happy I got it? Okay, but the the risk is very low. Exactly. Right, exactly. Like words. The worst case scenario here is you don't like it or you don't feel good or you know and you waste your five bucks and you have one morning where you had a breakfast that was whatever, right? But the the experiment is so much more valuable, right? Absolutely of like having that experience, and maybe you're like, wow, I had the green tea and I had egg bites or whatever, and I actually noticed that I'm like focusing better on my 10 a.m. meeting. I

Food Detective Journal For Real Data

SPEAKER_00 22:27

actually okay, and so that brings me to the next exercise I tell people to do, which is a food detective journal, where you write down all of the things that you know, anything you're putting in your mouth, so a drink, um, food, if you're grabbing some like MMs from a coworker or you're like just like nibbling on something throughout the day, like write it all down and then start writing like your how your mood and your energy and like anything that's happening, you know, within an hour or so of consuming it. And and then bonus points if you are doing that exercise on top of that, right? You know, where you're marking down, okay, I I chose this and here was the difference. Um, but I usually for clients just have them do it in their regular life, you know, with what they usually eat for at least a week first, to see, okay, this is what your standard is, is what we're usually doing. And then the second or third week, let's build in some experiments and start playing around. Because then what happens is ultimately where you built up to with your sugar choice, right? Is we start to make choices from our empowered experiences, yeah, and not from what anyone else out there is saying. So we start to notice, oh wow, instead of like because some influencer was like, when you eat 30 grams of protein in the morning, you're gonna feel better or whatever, right? Yeah. That drastically depends on what else is going on in your body and what kind of pro like there's so many variables in that, right? But for you, you can look and say, wow, okay, I noticed that on the mornings that I had this my coconut yogurt with my berries. Um I seem to feel better and be more focused and stay full until lunchtime. And I noticed on the, you know, these days where I just like I don't know, grabbed a piece of toast as I was rolling out the door, I was really struggling by 10 a.m. or 11 a.m., right? And the thing I love about that is that it's throwing out these kind of like big like paradigms that people are just like kind of throwing at you about like do this, don't do that. Yeah, and you're starting to tweak based on your body.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

And so then when you make those choices, you're making those choices from a place of self-love.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

You're not saying, I always say, like, I grew up with banana pancakes, like that was like my comfort food as a kid, you know, Sundays after church, we go get pancakes, and banana pancakes. If I had banana pancakes today, I would be half asleep on this call. And but the thing is, it doesn't mean I can never have them if I want them. Yeah, it's just I'm gonna choose that on a day where maybe I can. Yeah, you can sleep it off. And right, yeah, and so there, but I also know obviously because of you know my my studies and my background, I also have the background knowledge that if a food is making you feel like that, it's also not the best food for you. Your body's trying to tell you something. My body is trying to tell me something, and so I'm gonna be really cognizant of okay, do I want to give my body a food that's not maybe that's hurting it on some level, right? And and therefore I naturally will save those banana pancakes for like super special occasions, or like running back home with my parents and I want to have that like nostalgia. Um, and it doesn't come like we were saying, it doesn't come from this place of restriction or I can't have that, or I'm, you know, what it's a bad food or anything like that. It just comes from I'm gonna make this choice that's self-loving for me in honoring of my body because that, you know, that's the energy I'm in. And so then that's kind of what I try to encourage, right? And that's alignment,

Ad Break And Free Missing Map

SPEAKER_00 26:41

right?

Christina 26:41

We're gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back right after this. Do you feel like you're always trying to figure out the cause of something? Why are you anxious? Why does your stomach give you trouble? Why do you lack passion, or why do you people please? It's frustrating when the questions of why overshadow life. Well, there are many reasons why things happen. Energetically it comes down to alignment or unalignment. And while you can treat conditions and situations in all sorts of different ways, it helps to know where energetically you need to shift. It's like repairing a foundation to a house before anything else. This is why I created the missing map: a guide to understanding your energy system so it leads you back to wholeness. Inside, you'll learn about your chakras and your energetic worlds, how to know where you need to align, and how to realign when you need to. I've kept it really simple. So simple, in fact, that not only is there a PDF guide mapping it all out, there's an audio version you can listen to on the go. Download this key to your system. Learn how to navigate it all from the inside out. You can find the missing map for free at spirituallyware living.com backslash the map or in the session notes below. What I love about it as well with the alignment piece of it is it's so regulating,

Diet Trends And The Protein Craze

Christina 28:06

it's so grounding. And in some ways, well, people might to begin with might be like, oh, I have to actually listen to my body. I don't know if I can trust what I'm hearing. It's an interesting thing how people will trust the diets that they're being told or the fads that are in. And it's like those are not designed for your body. You have no idea if those are gonna work, but people do treat them as these box religions almost like they become this kind of new dogma of like, well, I have to have this and I have to this and I have to have this and I have to have this. You know, I remember when Atkins came out and my sister was like, Atkins is all the way, and I was like, okay, I not for me, not for me. So, but you know, it uh it it's an interesting thing when it it's a fascinating thing where as humans we have a tendency to kind of bring in this information from out and from a dysregulated space, we're like, okay, we'll take that. Yeah, oh, that will feel secure. I can anchor into that. Oh, I'll listen to this person. They know what they're doing. Whereas what I love about what you're teaching is actually like get to what your body is actually saying. It was why should your body not have the information of what it actually needs to thrive?

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Yeah, absolutely.

Christina 29:17

That's where you're going to the source.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

You're exactly it's like going to the source, and I think it is because people will say, you know, oh, well, he's a doctor, right? Like Dr. Atkins was a lot of these people that put this out are doctors. Okay. I can tell you I'm married to a doctor, and he'll be the first person to tell you you should not listen to them about nutrition. Um refers his patients to me. Like doctors. That's true. Um, I love that. But it's funny, people are very resistant. My husband's actually a surgeon, and it's kind of we we talk about how it's kind of amazing how people uh sometimes are more open to having themselves cut open than they are to changing their diets, right? Oh, 100%.

Christina 30:04

I remember the story of my dad. I mean, my dad is 95, so I don't know what I don't know what has been blessed by my my dad, uh, because he's doing amazing. But he was told when he was like 70, either we upped your medication or you quit eating the cookies. And he's like, give me the dose, I'm fine. It's like I don't, I don't, I don't know what miracle thing he's been doing, but still.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

My parents are very similar in that way. Um, they're 67 and 70, so but like I feel the same way. I'm like, okay, I just keep praying to God. I just I don't know what's going on. Keep them keep them going, but they will not change their ways. And people always find that so funny because they're like, you know, and I'm like, sometimes as your daughter, as the daughter, you have the least influence. Like you could try so hard, and like but they're just like, okay, okay, you know.

Christina 30:58

Yeah, I was visiting the other day and I was like, no, I don't have sugar anymore. And you could do this kind of like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. No, they they uh they're the same way, they kind of just make fun of me. Um, and I'll be like, Are you sure you don't want this? And I'm like, You guys are like you guys are not helpful. That's not helpful.

Christina 31:16

I really actually, I can 100% tell you I don't.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

No, they're like, I'm good, I'm good. Yeah, but thanks for passing, right? Um but you know what if also I do so I do think there is that element of like we've been taught in our culture that there's experts and then there's you. Yes, right? And so, and here's what I say to that is that I'm not listening I like I said, I took my classes at Harvard. I love research, like I'm actually like a research dork. Like, I love reading all of the studies, I love knowing the latest. I'm like, oh okay, wow, they did this study on like the effects of like chickpeas on this or whatever. Like, I love that stuff. Like, I will listen to that the way that like some of my friends will like watch The Real Housewives. I'm like, no, latest studies on anti-cancer foods, right? And so I am by no means like anti-research or science or any of that, but here's here's where I think it gets fun is that if you're attracted to some sort of dogma program, right? Yeah, and you're like, ooh, like I'm really attracted to the Atkins or the keto or whatever it is, then play with it, right? Play with it. Say, okay, let me read up like whatever they're telling me to do, and let me experiment. Maybe I do two weeks and do my food detective work on it, right? Yeah. And say, how does it actually feel in my body when I'm eating this way? Yes. And then asking, because here's the thing to see, here's the thing that I think a lot of people get confused. To see results, quote unquote results on a lot of these programs may take two to three weeks or four weeks. I don't know, right? Depending on if you're looking for some results on your skin, it's gonna usually take up to four weeks because your skin has a turnaround cycle. But for, and if you're looking for weight loss, and oftentimes you're losing the water weight right out the gate, you're not actually losing fat mass, but you will feel your body's gonna give you in information about how you're feeling on these programs almost immediately. Yeah, you're gonna know within a couple of days. I mean, I know I would probably know just within one day, but I would say try it for a week, right? Try it for a week and make some observations because then you're giving yourself the power. Yes. And you can you there might be elements of that that you can take that work for you, and then there might be like, you know what? I actually noticed that when I'm eating this way, I think one of the things with some of these dogma things is that it really depends on where you're starting from, right? Yeah, okay, go ahead. So, like, right? Yeah, and so the reason why I think you have people that are like huge advocates for these, let's say, like whatever, meat forward or protein forward. Like right now, I feel like the protein trend, I wrote a little bit about this in the mindful table. Um, the protein trend is out of control. And my husband's so happy to hear you say this. It is out of control. And I understand why, but I, you know, it's one of those things where, first of all, there's you can get protein from chickpeas, you can get protein from tofu, you can get protein from broccoli, right? You can get protein from quinoa, you can get protein from you know, wild salmon. Like there's all different things you can get protein from, and then there's also protein powders, protein popcorn, protein cookies, protein pop carbs I saw. Oh, right, they are not the same, right? Um, and so so someone saying I'm gonna eat X grams of protein a day, well, what is that protein now, right?

Christina 35:16

What does that actually mean?

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Yes. And for a lot of people that let's just give the benefit of the doubt, they're eating more of the whole foods versions of proteins, where you're gonna see results. Why? Because if you're trying to focus on getting such a large amount of protein in, you're probably not gonna have the space to eat a lot of the crap you were eating, right? Right? Yeah, of course. So if you were normally eating, you know, cookies and all of this stuff, you're probably gonna be so full. Borderline sick to your stomach full, right? From this high amount of protein, that you're like, I can't even think of eating that because so they do serve on different ways, right? Because if you're coming from a place you're eating a ton of fast food, you're eating a ton of processed food, and then you're like, okay, I gotta do this new protein kick. And so now you're cooking at home.

unknown 36:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Now you're going to the grocery store and you're buying the like protein Greek yogurt, and you're making sure you you're making your even if you're even if it's meat or whatever it is you're making as your protein from eating mostly out in maybe fast food and processed food. And high salts and high everything, and yeah. It's gonna be a massive cost in your health, right? Of course it is. So, and that's I think also why it's so important to come back to that bioindividuality, right? Yes, and like you're learning, and I think some of your clients you were saying are learning in perimenopause, and especially for women. I only work with women, um, because our bodies are constantly evolving. And so what works for you, what works for you literally in one week of your cycle, will work for me next week when I'm done for my period. Yeah. Will not work for me this week, right? There's just these like adjustments. Well, and I think this is what I love about what you're talking about.

Christina 37:15

I love that you're talking about this because that um, I mean, I remember when I first started tipping into perimonopause, and for some reason, all of a sudden, I really just craved tinned fish. I was like, I would sit, and instead of like making up like a tuna salad sandwich, I didn't want the, I didn't want anything in that. I was just sitting there ripping open the tin and I would just eat it and I'd be like, I'm so satisfied. And it was the strangest thing. And then I got into a habit of it thinking this is what my body wants, this is what my body wants. And all of a sudden I went and had one and I was like, nope, I'm done. Didn't want it anymore. And it was like this interesting thing of actually watching the chapters, and again, like what you said, week by week, yes, day by day, hour by hour, but then also these massive periods of time where you're like, This works and now it really doesn't. And now this works. And I think that's what's so fascinating is when we're talking about these types of even like what you said, we'll try the diet for a week and see what happens. What I find fascinating about the human psyche is that we go, well, this works. This is the diet that works for me. Okay, that's what does. And then you go, okay. And I mean, I think we have, I mean, personally, I think over my life, there's been often times where I've been like, no, no, no, I don't do that. You know, and you kind of like, you know, I don't do that diet, I have this specific diet. And you kind of, you know, you start trying to convince everybody to join the diet. Oh, yeah. My husband and I went on a kick of like the blood group diet, like about 20 years ago. I didn't know. What's your blood group? We're like, this is the this is like explosive. This is so great. Individual, but it's like, no, actually, my husband was sitting there, he's like, I'm not so supposed to have bananas, but I really like bananas. He was heartbroken for a few days. Finally, he's like, I'm having my bananas. Because that's that's where it goes, right? Where you actually go, this works for me now. And I think when you actually start taking on these big programs and they work for you for a week, it's that magic thing that you introduce at the beginning of saying, How are you feeling? What do you need? This is where you're working. Do you do any like

Muscle Testing And The Mindful Table

Christina 39:19

muscle testing or anything with food? Or is that something that you pass on to because I always am fascinated by like the pick up the thing and be like, this for me is it not for me?

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Oh, absolutely. I love that. You can do muscle. Um, an easy version of that you can do um is simply like if you stand up straight, um, I put my hands on my heart. I don't know if it's necessary, but I like to do it. Um, I put my hands on my heart, and then I just get a clear vision in my head of whatever it is, right? So maybe it's a supplement, maybe it's an exercise thing, maybe it's a food, right? And I just think of it in my mind's eye and you know, feel it there. And then I just ask my body, like, is this good, right? Is this good for me right now, in this moment? And muscle testing is very much you gotta do it every, you should do it every day, yeah, right? Um, if you want to do something like that. Um, and your body will lean forward if it's a yes and lean backwards if it's a no. And it might not move if it's just neutral, like eat the banana, don't eat the banana, like you're fine either way, right? We don't like desperately need it, but we don't like not need it, right? Um, but I find that to be really helpful because it's just like an easier one that you can do anything. Like if you have, you know, a partner or somebody with you, for sure, you can like do the thing with your arm where you could like hold it in one hand and like put your arm up and then you know see if they can like push your arm down. And if they push your arm down, then that's a no. And if you're able to keep it strong, then that's a yes, right? Um, so that's a fun one if you have a partner, but I just like to do the other one because I feel like this way you you could I literally will do that like when I'm like out at like a restaurant.

Christina 41:06

Yeah, I don't and I think it's important to for people to remember. I actually was just teaching a class of this the other day of like this kind of like I was like, you know, it doesn't need to be this massive fallover thing. Like no, no, because I think sometimes people think they're like, oh my goodness. It's sometimes the most subtle just opening and expansion. And I think to introduce that with your food intake is a fascinating thing. I haven't done it over supplements or anything yet, and that's such a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Yeah, that's yeah, it's so good. And I think, you know, uh, I love what you talked about with the opening and stuff because there's a second, um, at that length of the bonus like meditation that we did in the that we talked about in the beginning, there's a second meditation that I added on there that's about learning your body's yeses and no's. Oh, and you can apply it to anything. Yeah. So it could be like, should I go to this event? Should I not go to this event? Should I take that class or should I whatever? Should I hang out with that friend? Should I not hang out with that friend? Um, because kind of what you what you said as well, I think the next step as you refine your relationship with your body is you start to learn our body is always communicating. It's always giving us a yes or a no. And you could just be in the presence of someone, right? Yeah. And your body either like your shoulders are down, your heart is open, you feel like you know, more grounded, your breathing relaxes, or you're in the presence of someone else who may be a totally fine, you know, person, like nothing wrong with them, not doing anything bad to you. And you're like, right? And all of a sudden you're like, why am I so tense? My shoulders are up to my ears, and like I'm feeling like I'm like wanting to slowly back into it. I wanna like, right? Or you ever get that feeling where you feel like you need to like, you like kind of like like hugging yourself, right? And you're like, I'm okay, don't be here, Cass.

Christina 42:56

I actually just had an experience about that the other day. I was like, okay, there's something off here, and I don't know what it is. Um, these are being kept in place.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Protecting yourself whenever you're with someone or whatnot, and you end up like wanting to hold yourself or cross your arms, there's like that's like you're protecting your vital organs there, right? This is a really ancient um gesture. And so we do it like subconsciously in different situations, and so I think that's one of those things where I love to that's why I think like doing this around food and rest and movement and stuff, it just creates this like great foundation so that when you have to make these big choices of like, do I take that job off or do I move to a different state? Do I marry this person or not marry this person or have a baby or would not have a baby or whatever, right? Like these like more like life changing decisions, you're like, I can trust. I can trust what my body is telling me.

Christina 43:52

Well, and it's interesting too, because also if you imagine the uh as a relationship, your body knows that you're trusting. So there's something. Something about, I mean, sometimes with my clients, I'll do a an exercise of like putting a hand on your heart and imagining your heart rising to your hand. So you're not just putting your hand onto your heart, but actually listen allowing your heart to come to you. And it's always interesting when you actually see that. It there's it deepens the trust. It deepens that relationship. You're literally asking it's like walking with your friend, and you just never ask their opinion about anything. So you know, you're like, oh, we'll go to this restaurant, we'll go to this event, we'll go to this. And all of a sudden you're like, what do you think? It creates this harmony and and it's such a powerful shift that it regulates your nervous system. So therefore, then from that standard foundational line, everything else becomes easier as well. So powerful, powerful work. And I love how you've you've woven all this together. Tell me about your book because is this a I mean?

SPEAKER_00 44:56

So it's it's it's it's a cookbook, but also like everything we just talked about is like the front matter of the book. Okay. So all the front chapters go through the different four pillars of eating with tension, describe all the processes we just talked about. Amazing. Tuning into your body, the food detective work, all of that. Amazing. And then I also have those on as like free audio chapters on the book bonus page as well. So if you'd like to listen to me reading it to you and kind of riffing a little bit, um, I thought that would be fun because I'm a big audiobook girl too. Fantastic. Um, and then the recipes, all of the recipes are organized seasonally. Okay, they're all completely plant-based, gluten-free. Um, and they all uh have a meditation and a mantra with them. Um, so for instance, the um this one is my authenticity is attractive, and this has a meditation for authentic self-expression.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

And then as far as you know, for sugars in this book, I use um in the book like date sugar, maple sugar, which I feel like if you're gonna have sugar have the highest mineral content to balance them because they're from Whole Foods, um, and that way, but you could you can substitute, you know, you could use monk fruit, you could use a non-sugar sweetener if you wanted, or just skip it. Um, you'll notice that none of these none of none of the desserts are like overly sweet, but for me, it was really important um for all these recipes. I feel like in general, a lot of us, um, and like you were talking about like attaching to a certain dogma, for a while I like very strongly attached to being vegan, and I released that not because I don't think not because I disagree with any of it, but because I don't believe in attaching to a dogma. Yeah, and I feel like anything that restricts us from being able to listen to whatever our body is saying and just like trusting that in the moment, right? However, when I went to write this book, that was like a big question, and the reason I chose to still make it totally plant-based, um, is because I often think we have so many, most of us, if you eating protein and animal, you know, animal stuff, like you know how to cook it. You know how to cook it by now. I don't need to tell you how to like grill a chicken or you can like ask chat GPT or whatever. And I think a lot of us don't have enough fun, delicious, hearty recipes that are fully plant-based. So I wanted to encourage people to like get more creative, get back in the kitchen. Um, I talk about protein a little bit because I know it's a hot topic. Um, so there's a lot of these things. I mean, there's juices, smoothies, soups, salads, um, different dishes for every season. Um, because I also think eating seasonally is another part of that, right? During different seasons, we crave different kinds of food, and depending on where we are, um, I tried to make this like general seasonally, but I really encourage people to go to their farmer's market, and there's a lot of recipes that will have, you know, more of like a featured vegetable or a featured um fruit, and it'll be like, okay, hey, if you know, blackberries are not in season for you right now, literally go to your farmer's market and find what's in season because anything can be in this recipe based on you know what's available by you.

Christina 48:30

That's amazing. That is so I'm so excited to hear how you have leaned into the plant-based thing as well. Because quite frankly, I mean, I've been a vegetarian for 20 years, but again, not prescribing people be like, oh, why did you do that? I'm like, because I just feel better when I do, but then all of a sudden I'll crave some fish. And so fish is is. Okay, okay. And then, and my my husband, you know, he's we're the same. Like the whole family is very much just my husband went vegan for a while, and then all of a sudden he was like, Oh, I really miss my butter. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, I could really do with some eggs, and uh, and then it just filtered in. And then one day he'll be like, ah, maybe I'll go vegan again for a bit. And it's that stretching, isn't it? It's that that leaning into it's all okay. I think it's when we get, and that's true with everything in life, with any mindfulness form, it's the attachment to something that really clinches even our muscles, like all of ourselves. We just get into that state of tension around something. But I agree too that there is something about uh the creativity and the uh appreciation of plant-based foods. Because you're like, I think if you were raised on, I mean, I was raised on meat, potatoes, and veg, that kind of regular thing, right? But I think you get so used to that mindset that when you explore vegetarianism, you're like, so what am I replacing the meat with? And it becomes that, right? Whereas like actually blow it out of the water.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Yeah, like blow and blow it out of the water, and then and it does sometimes. It takes it's so funny. Even yesterday night, me and my husband, we made this like stew with like mushrooms and white beans and potatoes. Um, and it's funny because you know, it is it's one of those dishes where you're like, should there be a meat? And I almost caught myself being like, should we throw in some like tempeh or tofu? And I'm like, no, we're it's fine, you know, and it was so and it is delicious, and it was really hardy and it was filling, and the beans have plenty of like you know, protein and fiber and all the jazz, but it is funny. We're we're so programmed like as a culture in that way that I really tried to like give people I I joke around that I'm like I don't care if you don't like follow any of these recipes like word by word. My hope is that it just inspires you. Um, there's this one salad actually in the book, it's a Brussels sprout salad, and it has grapes and white beans and a couple other things. And I can't even tell you, I put it in the book because it was like a weird salad I ended up making for myself one day, and then I was like, Oh, I love this. Um and it was so kind of random, and it's probably one of the most talked-about recipes that I get feedback on where people will be like, I saw this salad, and I was like, What is this? And then I made it and now I'm obsessed with it, and I'm so like not that I'm like I don't care if people eat this specific salad, but I love that it made them like just think outside the box, and I think that's you know, I think sometimes that's what our culture needs a little bit more of is like how to have fun, and now it's like we have all these kind of meat substitute or fake things, and it's like we're missing, we're missing the point, we're missing the point, exactly. Like a meat. Play with the vegetables, play with the vegetables.

Christina 51:43

We are programmed. I mean, like even you saying Brussels sprouts, you know. We used to laugh because my daughters would go to school or like hang out with their friends or something, and be like, What's your favorite food? And they'd be like, My dad's Brussels sprouts, and I'd be like, Oh, you know what? That's like the biggest parenting win. It's like, uh break. I felt like we were breaking some matrix just by them like suggesting that. Because they'd be like, You like Brussels sprouts? And it's true, he makes a really killer Brussels sprout, um, but it's like, you know, minimizing them and whatever stock Hubie puts in, and just it's just like really, really lovely. But it's that program, it's like ew, Brussels sprouts. And I mean, like, I'm sure people are listening to the salad description, like Brussels sprouts, because that's there's something, it's like people, they're little cabbages.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Yeah, and and and so much of that too is like I have the opposite of that. Like, I love Brussels sprouts now. I grew up hating Brussels sprouts because my mom would boil Brussels sprouts. Yes, and and they would call them Martian heads, which did no favors for them. And they're like, Oh, we're having like Martian heads for dinner. And I was like, What is this? And so it was so funny. I remember it wasn't until like my 20s. I think I was out to dinner with someone and they ordered roasted Brussels sprouts, and I was like, I've never seen Brussels sprouts done that way before. And I was like, Oh my god, these are amazing. And so, one of the other activities I recommend in the book is one of the things I did on my cooking journey was go to the farmer's market, and this is great if you have kids, you have like picky eater kids. A couple of my clients that struggle with their kids have loved this. Um, but I did it myself alone and it was totally fun. Um picky kids at the end of the day. You buy something that's in season, right? Like let's say you're like, oh, there's a lot of zucchini or whatever. Buy four of four or five of the same vegetable, yeah, and then every day or every night, play around with making it differently. So maybe one night you bake it with some seasonings, maybe another night you saute it with some olive oil, maybe another night you steam it. Um, you know, play around with making it a couple different ways because oftentimes the reason you say you don't like something is actually because you don't like how it was prepared.

Christina 53:58

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, that's amazing. That's the uh this is just so this has been a fantastic conversation. I am just so excited. I'm so excited about your book. I'm so excited to get your book. Uh this is just I'm so excited to get this episode out to everybody. Absolutely fantastic. So tell me, where can everybody find your work? Where what what where can they find your book? What is your website? I will put it all in the show notes, but also sometimes people like to hear it.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

Yeah. So you can find me anywhere at Cassandra Bodzak, at Cassandra Bodzak on Instagram, on Substack, on YouTube. It's Cassandra Bodzak TV. Um and the my website's Cassandra Bodzak.com. The website for the book is Cassandra Bodzak.com slash the mindful table, the name of the book. Yep. Um, and you can get the book wherever books are sold. So uh you can get at all the big places like Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, that. But I also like to encourage people if you have a local independent bookstore that you love, just go in. They may not have it if they're a small bookshop, but they'll be so happy to order it for you. And then it supports them and also supports me because maybe they'll be like, hey, it's cool. Let me order a couple copies, and more people in your town will get to check it out as well. Too.

Christina 55:11

Fantastic. And talk this way to all of your friends, everybody, and get them to listen to this because we need to shift. It's such a it on some way it feels like a revolution. It feels like a shift, it is one shift in mindset of really just listening to your body feels like a way that everyone can take their power back a little bit somewhere. And and it's just such a powerful step. And it's just so little people. It's just a little step. But just started today. Start today, right now. Exactly. Right after listen to this, go grab a snack, but listen to your body first. I love it. I love it. Yeah. Thank you so much. I can't wait to keep in touch with you and keep talking, and we'll definitely hope and have you back.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

Thanks so much for having me on. This is great.

Christina 55:53

Thank you.